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|  | Topic : Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area |  |
| | | Ashlander | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 19 Apr 2021 - 05:12 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Leethal) | | |
Leethal wrote:
Glad it's sort of sorted 
Oil leaks rarely fix themselves and I really hope that the oil filtration system is 100%  |
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I'm not counting on it fixing itself, I still plan on figuring out what the cause is. This is the only issue with the bike now, so once this leak is figured out it's 100% again. It's obviously related to the output shaft, but I need to get the pulley off and run the bike see if the oil is coming from the shaft, which would indicate not enough or badly applied sealant, or from the cover, which would indicate the bearing isn't seated completely and preventing the cover from sealing around it. Perhaps someone has some other ideas, but those are my 2 primary suspects.
As for the filtration, we'll see. I rode over 4k miles with it like this last year, so I doubt anything is clogged up, just a matter of trying to get it out now. I expect there to still be a fair bit in there so I'm doing the oil again shortly, and I'll see how it looks. Then I'll probably just do the oil every 1000 miles or so for next few changes or until I stop finding metal, just to try to flush as much as I can out over the course of the season.
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 19 Apr 2021 - 07:32 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Pulling out and pressing in that bearing like you did, taking into account the friction in the housing between bearing and housing, and the fact that the bearing you pull out is the fix bearing and the one on the other end of the shaft is the free float bearing, there is a good chance you have been pulling the output shaft forth and back, while doing the fix. Not sure if that is good.
Did you measure how long the shaft did stick out of the housing, and remeasure after new fit ? Numbers should be same or something is wrong
In regard to the metal particles in the oil I can guarantee you that your oil pump is damaged, and one thing more, the oil pressure lubricating the transmission and balance shaft bearings, is NOT filtered, including the inner cooling oil for the alternator, where all iron particles will be catch by the magnets in the flywheel, and they stay and accumulate, eventually ruin the whole alternator.
You believe you can flush out all just by changing oil, no you can't, and when rev up, or ride fast, the sediment in the pan will be stirred up and start circulating.
The oil filter is not designed to withhold small particles, only bigger ones, so that will not be of much help. If you want to catch the small particles you will have to use this filter
But in order to prevent the filter to get clogged up, you will have to change every 100 miles the first 3 times, to prevent the relief valve inside filter to open and just bypass the oil.
It is not my bike, and you can do as you feel best, but in my opinion, having worked with bikes, cars and professionally with transmissions, being an Mechanical Engineer for 40 years now, frankly I can tell you, you are asking for trouble the way you did it.
I hope though, you will get away with it.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 19 Apr 2021 - 09:29 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Slcharger) | | |
Slcharger wrote:
Pulling out and pressing in that bearing like you did, taking into account the friction in the housing between bearing and housing, and the fact that the bearing you pull out is the fix bearing and the one on the other end of the shaft is the free float bearing, there is a good chance you have been pulling the output shaft forth and back, while doing the fix. Not sure if that is good.
Did you measure how long the shaft did stick out of the housing, and remeasure after new fit ? Numbers should be same or something is wrong
In regard to the metal particles in the oil I can guarantee you that your oil pump is damaged, and one thing more, the oil pressure lubricating the transmission and balance shaft bearings, is NOT filtered, including the inner cooling oil for the alternator, where all iron particles will be catch by the magnets in the flywheel, and they stay and accumulate, eventually ruin the whole alternator.
You believe you can flush out all just by changing oil, no you can't, and when rev up, or ride fast, the sediment in the pan will be stirred up and start circulating.
The oil filter is not designed to withhold small particles, only bigger ones, so that will not be of much help. If you want to catch the small particles you will have to use this filter
But in order to prevent the filter to get clogged up, you will have to change every 100 miles the first 3 times, to prevent the relief valve inside filter to open and just bypass the oil.
It is not my bike, and you can do as you feel best, but in my opinion, having worked with bikes, cars and professionally with transmissions, being an Mechanical Engineer for 40 years now, frankly I can tell you, you are asking for trouble the way you did it.
I hope though, you will get away with it.
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I appreciate the input. From what I've read it sounds like that bearing is press fit to the shaft and just snug in the housing, so I'm not sure how much it'd cause the shaft to move. Both the extraction and installation used the shaft for the leverage, so any movement would have to be from whatever friction there is with the housing. It did have maybe .5-1mm of of in/out play though before I even started too.
The metal particulates also aren't small, they're mostly pretty big. More coarse like glitter, rather than finer dust-like particles like I've usually seen in cars. I suppose it probably has finer particles as well, but the bigger ones just stand out more. I know I'm not going to get it all out, but if I can manage to get 98-99% out and save from having to pull/dismantle the engine I'd call it a success. I'll need to look into that filter too, I have no problem changing it every 100mi a few times.
Out of curiosity, what do you have access to under the sump? I didn't look at it too much but it looked like the sump could be dropped while on the bike pretty easy. Can you get the pump out that way? Main issue is, being in an apartment, I don't have the means/space to pull the engine out to do anything with it even if I wanted to.
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 19 Apr 2021 - 10:24 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | 
Oil pump pictures.
The oil pump is well hidden behind the clutch, not easy to get acces.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | AZCactus | | Taranis | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 4,524 | | Location | : | AZ |
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| | Posted : 19 Apr 2021 - 10:51 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Well done Ashlander, impressive repair! ...hope it's a permanent fix, time will tell. I bet Yes 
| 2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 19 Apr 2021 - 18:03 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Slcharger) | | |
Slcharger wrote:
Oil pump pictures.
The oil pump is well hidden behind the clutch, not easy to get acces. |
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Awesome, looks doable though. I'm gunna have a look at that during the next oil change. I'm guessing it's just removing the clutch plates and the gear system, and the pump parts come right out the side, or do you need to do anything from the inside to free it?
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 20 Apr 2021 - 01:27 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Ran the bike today to try to track down that oil leak.
Looks like it's coming from the outside of the hub, so the seal in the cover must not be sealing properly. I wish I still had the old one to compare the new one to. I left it under the bike the first day I was working on it and I think the maintenance guy picked it up on one of his trash pickups...
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 21 Apr 2021 - 23:52 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Welp, got sent the wrong shaft seal. Having the correct one overnighted from another dealer, and had them measure the inside to make sure it was the right one. This one is about a good 1/4" too big in the center so it's not even making contact with the shaft at all.
At least it's a simple fix. Once that's in, she's good as far as repairs go. Well, aside from possibly replacing the pump, which doesn't look too bad tbh.
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